Amy Gutmann, former German Vice Chancellor discuss U.S.-German relations at Perry World House event

Former Penn President and United States Ambassador to Germany Amy Gutmann and former German Vice Chancellor Robert Habeck discussed the shifting transatlantic partnership between Western Europe and the U.S. at an event hosted by Perry World House on Tuesday.

At the Oct. 28 event, the speakers emphasized the impacts of the strong U.S.-German relations during Russia’s invasion of Ukraine — occurring at the very beginning of Gutmann’s tenure as ambassador — and how these relations have since changed.

The event was introduced by Provost John Jackson Jr., who categorized diplomacy as “building a bridge when everyone wants to burn it down.”

Gutmann worked closely with Habeck during her time as ambassador, and the two discussed the nature of their personal relationship leading up to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. They stressed the significance of their mutual trust in shaping the cooperation between Germany and the U.S.

During the event, Gutmann said that the U.S. had “the highest degree of confidence” that the Russian invasion of Ukraine “was going to happen.” She explained that her close relationship with Habeck allowed her to share this information with him — and by extension, with Germany. 

“The fact that we could trust people like Robert strengthened the U.S.-German relationship, because Robert was just so clearly an ally,” she added. “It brought the personal into the political.”

Gutmann explained that, when the conflict erupted, there had been a “bipartisan view” that both the U.S. and Germany should support Ukraine against Putin. 

“The disagreements were on how to do it, how much we could afford to do, how much we wanted Germany to do today,” Gutmann added.

While there was some question regarding how much support should be offered — both in terms of fiscal and military resources — the understanding of which country should be supported was clear.

Habeck explained that Germany’s support for Ukraine came from its priority to protect European democracies and liberty. He referenced the 2014 “Revolution of Dignity” in Kyiv, which led to the death of 108 Ukrainian civilians who were protesting against the rejection of the European Union-Ukraine Association Agreement.

Habeck said that young people in Ukraine “were protesting for their future and their freedom.” 

“The young people of Ukraine were willing to die for a free and liberal society,” he said. “They were arguing for belonging to Europe and that Ukraine should be part of the European Union — in the end, they were shot.”

“So then, suddenly all this talk about ‘we should not provoke Russia’ — it was just talk. The question became: How can we help them?”

However, the transatlantic agreement on how to address the conflict has not remained the same. In particular, Habeck referenced the potential decrease in U.S. military support for Ukraine, noting that it reflects a growing divide between German and U.S. perspectives on how NATO should respond to such conflicts.

“You can see … how important it is that the United States and Europe work closely together,” Habeck said. “Not only professionally, but that they really trust each other. I have to say that this trust might not be broken — but it is not intact.”

Following this conversation, the event opened up to questions from the audience. 

When asked about the current vacancy in the U.S. Ambassador to Germany position and its impact on the transatlantic relationship, Habeck reiterated that ambassadorial relations play a key role in enabling close, on-the-ground cooperation between countries.

“That indication of trust — I would say it’s invaluable,” Habeck said.

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