Former CIA, KGB agents discuss spy world

For decades KGB and CIA agents plied their secret trade from opposite sides of the Iron Curtain. Last night in Dunlop Auditorium, a panel of former agents from both spy agencies came together to discuss whether such agencies are needed in the post-Cold War era. The panel's more intellectual focus surprised many of the approximately 100 people in the audience, some of whom expected to hear the former agents reminisce about covert operations of years past. David MacMichael, a Korean infantry platoon leader who received the Purple Heart, did classified research for several years. He was involved with the Central Intelligence Agency from 1981 to 1983, and in 1985 he testified on behalf of Nicaragua in the federal case on U.S. involvement in Nicaragua. MacMichael questioned the need for secret agencies like the CIA or KGB. "The power of controlling secret information is inevitably abused," he said. "Look at Vietnam and the Iran-Contra affair. We need reliable foreign intelligence but not the CIA." Victor Marketi left the CIA in 1969 after 12 years, following disagreements with the agency over its policies and procedures. "The CIA is not as necessary as people are led to believe," he said. "It is a myth that has been created over the years. The goal is analyzing information but it has turned into the President's secret tool, an instrument with which to interfere in foreign governments. "Sometimes there are legitimate secrets but the foreign governments already know what we're doing," he added. "Having secrets keeps the people from knowing what the White House is doing. The people lose control." The other four panelists – Vladimir Barkovsky, Ivanovich Mouri, Yuri Totrov and Serolodlvanich Gapon – each had spent over 30 years as KGB agents. The six former agents are touring the U.S. discussing goals and missions of secret organizations – specifically the CIA and KGB – in a post-Cold War era. "We are ready to solve problems and new complications," said Barkovsky, who joined the KGB in 1939. "It takes time to find mutual understanding and make the world more stable." Gapon said he believes there is still a need for services such as the CIA or KGB. "As long as governments keep some decisions secret, other countries should know what they're keeping secret," he said. "It's needed to monitor agreements and to know strategic and conventional arms. Otherwise, everyone is blind." All six panelists said they approved of an international agreement passed last year, restricting the behavior of organizations like the CIA and the defunct KGB. They said it kept operations civilized, eliminating murders and paramilitary action. Although several people asked about the surveillance of immigrants and mistreatment of dissidents, the agents did not discuss these issues in depth. They did say, however, that the omnipresence and omnipotence of secret agencies like the CIA and the KGB is a myth. And the KGB agents said they can only rely on textbooks and the CIA to determine if the KGB was involved in the Rosenberg trial and President Kennedy's assassination. The event was sponsored by the Penn Political Union and the International Relations Undergraduate Student Association.