As University President Judith Rodin prepares to leave her position in June, she sat down for an interview with representatives from The Daily Pennsylvanian last week.
Daily Pennsylvanian: What do you think has been your greatest accomplishment while at Penn? Judith Rodin: Start with an easy one! When I came, Penn was viewed as relatively unsafe. There was a murder in the neighborhood my second month as president. We were still recovering as a community from the Water Buffalo episode and the community was pretty badly fractured in terms of [our] ability to speak civically to one another about difficult issues, particularly racial issues.
We didn't have enough resources to do what we wanted to do programmatically. Our physical plant wasn't up to speed, particularly in the sciences. And we didn't have a particularly strong vision for where the University was going -- we were good, but not excellent, and there was no strategic vision for where we might go.
And so when I think about the accomplishments of my team -- they were never my accomplishments alone, but with a terrific team that we built, and with great trustees and board support -- it was, I think, to create a strategic vision for how to make Penn great.
Create a strategic vision and then implement it for West Philadelphia. And our relationships with our neighborhood, and that obviously increased safety for everyone, but it was a much broader and deeper vision than that. It had to do with housing and retail and public education and building economic capacity back into the neighborhood. So I think West Philadelphia is a terrific achievement.
I think recognizing Penn's strength was in its interdisciplinary capacity and really building so many cross-school, interdisciplinary programs, whether they were majors or degree-granting programs, graduate or professional degree-granting programs, but really differentiating us as the truly interdisciplinary Ivy in a very significant way.
All of the transformation of undergraduate education. The curriculum changes, the college houses, the hubs, which we called them then, which turned out to be [Kelly] Writers House and CURF and [Weiss] Tech House and now performing arts. They didn't exist, and they were part of the vision of how to change undergraduate education. Perelman Quad and Pottruck to really recognize the extracurricular part of student life was going to be very important for undergraduates.
The whole physical transformation of campus. Most of the schools -- all but two -- had major, major new buildings or renovations. There's just a lot of physical capacity increased for all of the academic programs.
And maybe helping to rebuild a sense of community at Penn, a place where civic discourse became really important -- not civil, but civic, where we really learned that we could argue and disagree and that that was part of engagement, and that we didn't have to all feel comfortable. We had to feel physically safe, but maybe intellectually a little uncomfortable as we mixed it up and really learned how to talk to one another, and I think that was critical.
And then finally, and of course very significantly, the Health System, which was in such great shape when I came and was in terrible shape in the middle and now is in such great shape again. So, just the energy and the will to fix it, which was very challenging.
DP: What do you hope to accomplish in the coming year before you leave, both in terms of wrapping things up and starting new projects?
JR: I've been thinking about that. That's why I made a couple of notes for myself, usually you don't see me with my handwritten scribbles.
The post office. Clearly... finalizing those property negotiations that are going to be the 50-year horizon for Penn, with the civic center and the post office, which will rely on the relationships that I've built politically and really will require, I think, this year to make sure they are complete.
To work with three new deans in a year in which there are no new searches -- except for the president. And that's somebody else's job. So it's going to be my first year in a long time where we won't be having active searches and I really can focus on the deans who are here, including the three new ones.
It's the year in which we're launching the new strategic plan fully and I'm completely engaged in that and I've taken the leadership role, especially for the urban initiative, so that's going to be fun and wonderful for me and I think quite interesting.
To continue the residential transformation. We have a lot of residential ideas, we talked to you about some of them, and we are going to make some decisions and commitments about undergraduate residential life this year that... I want to finalize before I go.
I'm going to spend a lot of time with students and faculty, which I'm really looking forward to, and we have got a lot of plans for ways to do that. I have obviously some development work to do and some planning. We are planning for a new campaign and I'm going to play a leadership role in that, whether I'm the president or not, so a lot of work will go on there.
I'm going to work very closely with Les Hudson, our new V[ice] P[rovost] for Strategic Initiatives. We're watching a lot of new things and the provost and I are very committed to getting that off the ground really, really successfully.
I'm going to continue to promote Penn's diversity goals. We all nervously awaited the Michigan decision, and now with that behind us, I think that we can push even further and harder on our strategic imperatives with regard to diversity.
I'm going to pay special attention this year to the challenges of our international students. We've talked a lot about the Patriot Act, we actually don't think Patriot II is coming, we think that, fortunately, Congress has sort of pulled back, but the issues for international students are real -- and faculty -- and the notion that Penn has to continue to be a place that grows from and develops because of its diversity, including international students, is something that I've been strongly supportive of, and want to make sure that Penn's position on this this year is really solidified, and I think it will take some leadership from me to do that. So those are this year's goals.
DP: Do you have any regrets, or if you had to do your term over again, what would you do differently? JR: Well, if I had major regrets, I'd stay longer. I'm satisfied. Obviously there's always things we could do more of or things we could do better. But, I think in terms of the challenges that I was presented 10 years ago, that I and my team have really created at Penn an institution about which we are all proud. And I don't leave with very many regrets, frankly.
DP: We touched on this a bit in your first question, but Penn is a much different school than it was 10 years ago, so how would you characterize the change, maybe not specifics... and, if you can, what do you envision the changes that the University will face in the next 10 years? JR: I think Penn is far more self-confident than it was 10 years ago, and really has a sense of how great it is and why it's great. People at Penn can really describe both what is wonderful about the institution, how it's different from other great institutions, as well as how it's similar. And it has sustained its energy, which it always had, but built into that energy a real entrepreneurial spirit, a real sense of confidence, a real sense we can do anything we set out to.
We developed the resource base, we developed the reputation, national and international, we are highly competitive for the best students and the best faculty and it's a terrific institution. And I think it was when I came. I think it's better now because of what we've done. And I think it has room to be even better. And someone else will have the wonderful, fun and great opportunity that I think I've had.
DP: ...What challenges do you think your successor will face?
JR: The economy is still sputtering and I think how, where the economic resources are as Philadelphia really has not grown in the past couple years in the way that many of us had hoped, and the Commonwealth is still struggling to settle its budget issues. It'll be a real challenge for Penn. Clearly we're not public, so we have a huge amount of private resources, but we've invested heavily in Philadelphia's success, and that will be a challenge if Philadelphia isn't able to marshal the resources to continue that course towards greater success.
Implementing any strategic plan is a challenge and we have a new strategic plan, which certainly my successor is going to have the lion's share of making the effort to do that. Sometimes it's harder to make changes when you're succeeding than when you're trying to succeed, and so maybe we're a little more complacent, a little more self-satisfied, and that may make it more difficult for my successor than it was for me when we were hungrier and people really felt that change was necessary.
And I think, finally, the great opportunity that all this new land acquisition provides is also a challenge. Figuring out how to use the new real estate wisely and well, how to grow the institution in a way that really enhances its capacity and benefits faculty, students, staff is an exciting opportunity, but it is also a challenge.
And finally, and very importantly to me, maintaining the momentum in West Philadelphia. I think that's critical both for Penn and for the neighborhood, and it would be my fervent hope that the search committee does not choose a president who doesn't really have that commitment.
DP: And if you were on the search committee for your successor, what kind of person would you be looking for?
JR: [laughs] They're going to ask me the same question in a few weeks. I think I've laid out the challenges, and I think it has to be somebody who really is a terrific academic, a great leader, somebody who has a passion for the institution and for higher education, somebody who really respects and admires the great urban university and has demonstrated an understanding of what an urban university really is all about, particularly a university that chooses to position itself as an urban leader, not only because of the geography, but also because of the content of our commitment. And hopefully somebody who loves this place as much as I have.
DP: Do you have any ideas about who that somebody might be?
JR: [laughs] Nope.
DP: Since you announced you'd be stepping down, a lot of people have probably been wondering where you'll go next. Some people might have speculated there may be some political opportunities in your future. At this point, do you have plans? JR: I don't. I always, in the back of my mind, believed that 10 years was the right time frame. When I came, I asked for... a letter of commitment for five years, and I asked that the trustees evaluate me in five years, so that we could see together in a very systematic way what we thought we had accomplished and where we thought we wanted to go and we did do that at the end of the first five years and decided that another five-year cycle was the right time frame. So this was the period in which they and I began to think, should it be another five years? And I did not think so because the new strategic plan is an eight- to 10-year plan, like mine was. I didn't think I wanted to be a president for 20 years. And so it just seemed like the right time.
There's several things that I want to do. My book on the commission's work just came out, I hope they sent you a copy, it just came out this week. I have two more books, at least, that I want to write, one on what we've done in West Philadelphia and then another one on universities generally, so I'll take some time and do that.
I'm really extremely interested in this notion of public/private partnerships in urban life because whether they're big cities or smaller cities, often the city government is the least imaginative entity in terms of transformation, and in some cities it's been public/private partnerships... 501c3s, in some it's been large corporations, in some it's been universities, and I've been asked over and over again whether what we've done in West Philadelphia is replicable. And I'd really like to both think about that and try to do some work testing that question.
So those are my immediate thoughts. I am the third Fox Leadership professor, so I would love to really activate that and Dean Preston has asked me to really think about that, obviously. So, teaching and writing and I will play a leadership role in Penn's capital campaign if the new president wants me to, at least in the silent phase of the campaign, certainly.
Politics, I think more in the way that I am, in a voluntary role. I'll stay involved in Philadelphia. I'm going to do some things for Governor Rendell. But I don't think running for political office is in my future.
DP: ... Now that you are no longer going to be in the position of chancellor, if you could just explain how your role with the University will develop. JR: Well, faculty member, consultant, fundraiser, President Emeritus, I hope. Involved and willing supporter of the new president. But Presidents Hackney and Meyerson have been here [during] my time, President Hackney for part of the time and President Meyerson for all of the time and Interim President Fagin in the beginning, and I learned from all three of them that the best thing a former president can do is get out of the way of the new president. So I certainly don't expect to be so visible that it's a challenge for my successor.
DP: You touched on this earlier, but what specific strides do you feel you've made in terms of improving the University's relationship with the local community, and what do you think still needs to be done in that area?
JR: Early in my presidency we made a very public statement that we would not further move Penn to the west or to the north, and that we would seek to acquire land to the east and to the south. And that was a very important first step in convincing the neighborhood that they could trust us and work with us, that we believed that we needed to do things with the neighborhood, not to the neighborhood or for the neighborhood, and that we were true partners, that we weren't doing this out of a sense of noblesse oblige, but the fact that we live together in the same community and we needed to figure out how to make it work.
So very early on I got to know and work closely with Councilwoman Blackwell, with Mayor Rendell, who I already knew, and then with Street, with all of our elected officials. And we have really made this a partnership, and for the city, West Philadelphia is now a kind of demonstration project. It gave people the confidence that the mayor's neighborhood initiative, neighborhood transformation effort might work. Temple is now taking up in North Philadelphia some of what we've done in West Philadelphia.
So, curing the town-gown suspicion. And some people have long memories, and there still, I'm sure, are people who are mistrustful of Penn and our motives, but in general, those relationships are extremely strong now. And the trust is real and the commitments are deep. We formed during my presidency a neighborhood initiatives committee of trustees so that we could show that this was a standing committee and a standing commitment of the University to the community, that it wasn't just my initiative, and that it was not an ad hoc committee, that it would stand alongside budget and finance and audit and other statutory committees, and really reflect the University's commitment to an enduring relationship with the community that I think will continue.
I think there's some nervousness -- I have been called by many people in the community -- nervousness about my departure and Penn's real commitment to this after I'm gone. And that's why I am so strongly recommending to the search committee that they think carefully about my successor with regard to someone who either understands the importance of this or has in a prior part of his or her career demonstrated similar commitments because I think it's critical to Penn's success as well as the community's.
DP: With the upcoming acquisition of the postal lands and implementation of the... Dorm and Dining Renovation Plan facing financial challenges, how do you think campus will change in the future, the face of campus?
JR: We want to put more residential [units] on the 3900 block of Walnut and on the 3400 block of Chestnut. I personally would love to see one more college house on Hill Field, and I'm hoping that we can do that. Because as we start moving east, there's going to be another anchor residentially and academically so that it won't all be everyone wanting to live either towards the west or in Center City, but a lot more will go on.
So, lots more retail, lots more activity on the eastern side of campus and I think it'll be very animated, very exciting. More playing fields.... So that when people think about Penn, they'll think from the river to 40th Street, I think very, very soon, and in a very significant way.
DP: Could you talk a little about Penn's retail strategy and maybe how having a new executive vice president will affect that...? JR: The retail strategy is set and we're all committed to it, including the not-so-new-anymore executive vice president. We continue to believe that the retail in the core of campus is more with an eye to what our students need and want, and then as we move to 40th Street or as we put new things on 33rd Street, we're going to put some more retail around the medical center, that it should be retail that is for faculty and staff, as well as students.
We're very committed to mixed use kind of activity, so it'll never be retail alone, it'll be shops and restaurants and galleries... and we try to have a mix that underutilizes chains and overemphasizes all kinds of interesting shops, especially on the outer core. The inner core, sometimes, sometimes because it's more expensive, uses the chains like Ann Taylor Loft, or Steve Madden at the time, and interesting coffee shops and restaurants, and a lot of things that really increase the vitality of campus.
When I raised safety as the first issue of concern when I became president, this campus was absolutely dead at night. No one walked the streets. There was no light. We transported people everywhere and there was just no activity once it got dark. And so part of the safety strategy is also part of the retail strategy, which is lots of light, lots of things happening, lots of nightlife, lots of restaurants and arts venues, and whether it's performing arts or the movie theater, that's as much a safety strategy as it is a retail strategy to keep and make these streets really vibrant and active at night as well as during the day.
DP: How do the new restaurants that have been coming to campus recently play into Penn's efforts to boost the Dining System, and how do you see the two developing over the next few years?
JR: ... We hope what we've done is provide a broad array of choices. There's Aramark that is putting in now a variety of known brand choices within dining options. We've really created much more flexible dining dollars utilization and we're continuing to upgrade that.
We're testing a lot of new things this year, a lot of renovation, 1920 Commons looks great if you've been in there, a lot more of that will go on. And we keep bringing new dining options onto campus, Mark's Caf‚ will open in the library, so close in to have a lot of flexible dining options while not making it so flexible that you lose the other element of dining, which is building a sense of community for the college houses.
So there's always a kind of creative tension between maximizing choice and maximizing enough continuity so that people in the College House System and others who wish to really continue their social life by eating together.
The off-campus dining is significantly more diverse than it was 10 years ago, and we continue to try to put in a wide array of choices, both in terms of types of food and price forms, and time of day, time of night options, again, to make it as creative as possible. And I think that the administration has been particularly responsive to what students are asking for. We keep testing and asking and refining and adjusting because we really want to make sure that this is serving the community in the way it wants to be served.
DP: Finally, on a personal level, what do you think you'll miss most about your role here at Penn right now?
JR: Most of all, I will miss the opportunity to continue to represent Penn and push its strategic directions forward. It's been a privilege to be Penn's representative in Philadelphia, in the nation, internationally, and be the person who speaks for and about Penn, and clearly that will be the new president's role.
I won't miss the people because I'll stay involved with the people, and so that opportunity will continue. But being Penn's strategic spokesperson has really been just a thrill and a privilege.
