We don't need no Hoops education

Two games down for M. Hoops, and two losses to BCS teams. But as my colleagues Neil Fanaroff and Ari Seifter asked, how much can we learn from these two defeats about the 2009-10 men's basketball team? Neil believes, not much, since this is way to soon to make snap judgments about the team. Ari believes we can make broader statements about the team's ability to compete with top-flight teams.

Not to cop out, but they're both right.

Clearly this Penn team, especially this early in the season, isn't suited to compete with a top 5 team like Villanova. And there's a good chance the Quakers' trip to Cameron Indoor Stadium will result in an equally lopsided loss to Duke. But that doesn't mean that Penn will be irrelevant against better competition forever. Ivy teams in general aren't irrelevant nationally. Cornell beat Alabama this weekend. Harvard beat Holy Cross and Williams and Mary, two better mid-majors. Even Brown -- which was last in the Ivies last year -- was semi-competitive agains Virginia Tech. Penn has awhile to go before they can be as successful as Cornell is right now, but that doesn't mean they'll go winless in the Big 5 from now until they quit out of desperation.

On the other hand, Neil's right that losing to Penn State and Villanova tells us very little about Penn's Ivy chances. The fact of the matter is this season will be a success or failure depending on Penn's Ivy play. If Penn goes 4-10 in non-conference play like it did last year, people will surely be up in arms, calling for Glen Miller's head. But then if the team were to somehow go 10-4 in League play, perhaps beat Cornell at the Palestra, go at least 1-1 versus Princeton and not lose to Dartmouth -- twice. I'm not saying they necessarily would do that. And Tyler Bernardini's injury could affect them significantly. But frankly it's too early to tell if they can compete with teams more equal to their caliber.

I realize some of you already posted your thoughts on Ari's initial column. But feel free to do so again here on The Buzz, especially your thoughts on this year's team.

Also, read after the jump for two more Hoops items

First, last night Fran Dunphy took his Temple Owls down to Washington, D.C., and almost defeated John Thompson III's Georgetown Hoyas, losing by one point, 46-45. Why do I bring this up? Just read the lede of this Mike Wise column for the Washington Post. Not only does it bring back memories of the Penn-Princeton rivalry, but it also relates to Ari's point about Ivy League schools recruiting top level talent (or the inability to recruit such players).

Secondly, quick anecdote about Villanova. For those that don't know, I'm also a member of the Penn Band and was at the Villanova game Monday with the Band. Before the beginning of every game our director receives a "game script" from the host school's athletic department that tells us when we're playing during timeouts and stoppages of play. The timeouts were labeled, with most of them relating to the game clock. But one timeout listed in the second half read, I kid you not: "When Villanova scores 95 points." Again, we were given this before the game started. So clearly the Villanova Athletic Department believed the Wildcats would wipe the floor with the Quakers, even though Villanova had only once ever broken 95 against Penn.